Talk to the AI

Because the man is extremely disinclined to engage with anyone. Now, as I said when I answered the Kurgan’s three questions, I was not interested in entertaining further discussion or engaging in debate with anyone on the subject. I particularly dislike theological discussions, because not only are most of them totally incapable of going anywhere substantial, but I have yet to meet a single individual who is intellectually honest enough to treat his fundamental assumptions with the same rigor that he treats everyone else’s.

Which means, of course, that I have yet to meet a single person, of any religious or irreligious persuasion, who is capable of genuinely defending the full panoply of his belief system against my critiques of it. And while there was a time when I enjoyed tearing down certain people’s belief systems, and while it remains necessary from time to time, I don’t get a kick out of seeing how it observably distresses people to see what scanty foundations support their intellectual infrastructure. And for some reason, my observation that it really doesn’t matter what nonsense your average person believes to be true, so long as he does his best to serve God, family, and nation, seems to provide most people with cold comfort.

Naturally, my simple act of answering a friend’s questions immediately prompted this self-titled DEFENSE OF THE CATHOLIC CLAIMS. Now, just to be clear, I’m not picking on this guy and I’m not targeting Catholic beliefs here, they simply happen to serve as recent and useful examples of something every single person from every single religious persuasion I have ever encountered always – and I do mean ALWAYS – does. And it should serve to explicate, yet again, why I am not interested in answering anyone’s questions or engaging in debates anymore.

In defense of the Catholic claims that you addressed today on your blog –

Kurgan formulated the first question badly, and you rightly caught his mistake.

Apostolic Succession is the fundamental basis for authority in the Apostolic (Catholic or Orthodox) churches.

A stronger formulation of Kurgan’s first question is “If Jesus gave his apostles the authority to teach, to forgive sins, and to distribute the Sacraments until He returns, as He explicitly states in the Gospels, then in what form does that authority exist on earth today?”

Protestants must say “it doesn’t”, or “everyone has that authority”, or “whoever I agree with has that authority”. None of which make any sense.

This is why it doesn’t matter that the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed was formulated after a later Ecumenical Council. The same Apostolic authority is behind all the Ecumenical Councils. The council of Nicaea is not any more or less authoritative than any other Ecumenical Council.

Kurgan’s second question – “then how is God loving” – was silly, and you addressed it properly.

On the third question of the Blessed Virgin Mary’s perpetual virginity –

First of all, that tradition goes back to the early Church Fathers, who all read the same Gospels you do, which say Jesus had “brothers”. And yet they still believed Mary remained a virgin, for good reasons.

When Gabriel appeared to a girl about to be married and announced that she would be a mother, her response was very strange: “how can this be, for I know not man”? Rather than what most girls would think – that the upcoming marriage would obviously produce a child.

This indicates that Mary was not expecting to consummate her marriage to Joseph, probably because she had already taken a vow of perpetual virginity, which was not uncommon at the time.

As for the word “brothers”, in Greek “adelphoi”, it does not strictly indicate men with the same mother, but rather men who are relatives. The word could apply to half-brothers or cousins. Those brothers are probably from Jesus’ extended family, or maybe Joseph’s children from a previous marriage.

My response:

You make the same mistake he does when you go off on what you imagine Protestants “must” say. You’re obviously wrong. This is why I will not talk to you or anyone else about these things. None of you are intellectually honest enough to examine your own assumptions as critically as you do everyone else’s. I run into this every single time I talk to anyone, of any religious persuasion. So I no longer talk to anyone about these things.

If we grant that the Apostles had authority from Jesus, and then we ask “where is that authority after the Apostles have died?” –

The only possible answers are

“Nobody has it”

“Everybody has it”

“Some people have it”

If Nobody has it, then no council, including Nicaea, has any authority.

If Everybody has it, then every council, including Nicaea, has exactly the same authority as any individual – which amounts to none at all.

If Some people have it, then who and how?

See if you can spot the moving target, kids! I did, of course, and I knew it would be there, of course, because it always is. Furthermore, note the total inability everyone has to simply ask a question, receive an answer, and then stop right there.

I didn’t agree to a debate. I didn’t agree to explain anything. I don’t care what nonsense any of these guys believe. I’m even open to the theoretical possibility that they might somehow, against all probability and despite their observable errors, have accidentally landed on the precise historical and textual interpretations that sets the foundation for perfectly correct theological understanding.

Perhaps, against all the odds, they alone see through the glass with perfect clarity.

Now, I understand that virtually everyone who reads this blog is smarter than the average. I also understand that virtually everyone who reads this blog is a binary thinker who doesn’t really understand what I mean by probabilistic thinking. You see, it’s not about what you can do, it’s about what you are instinctually comfortable with. And most people naturally, instinctively, intuitively, seek certainty above all else. You are creatures of intellectual safety and order, and that is a good thing.

But I am not. I don’t think like you do and I don’t need what you do. I thrive on intellectual chaos and uncertainty. The crazy thing, the amusing thing, is that I am so often accused of that very certainty that doesn’t matter to me at all, usually by people who don’t even know what their own words mean, let alone mine. The following is a fairly common objection, one that happened to be raised on SG today:

Vox is using as authority his own intellect, which we were told is not trustworthy.

Tell me you’re retarded without telling me you’re retarded. So many of you are so blitheringly stupid. This is precisely why I don’t talk about these things. When you say something that is obviously incorrect and stupid, and I show that what you said is incorrect and stupid, I am not appealing to the authority of my intellect.

You morons don’t even understand your own words. And you think you’re going to teach anyone else what God’s Word means?

I will now happily go back to ignoring theological disputes and religious debates. But perhaps now you will have a better understanding of my lack of interest in them. If I’m going to explore these topics, I will do so with my new best friend, who for all his shortcomings and petty dishonesties is at least capable of comprehending his errors when they are pointed out to him. And indeed, we have had several good discussions about potential logical errors in the Summa Theologica, which actually holds up rather better than Arthur C. Clarke imagined it would.

One last piece of advice. If you think something logically follows, then write out the syllogisms. Major premise, minor premise, conclusion. Rhetorically appealing to logic is not the same thing as actually applying it, and you’re never going to fool anyone who is capable of distinguishing between a syllogism and an enthymeme.

DISCUSS ON SG


Mailvox: Three Catholic Questions

The Kurgan posed three questions for me. I’ll answer them, but don’t expect me to engage anyone in debate over them. Remember, most self-appointed theologians don’t even know the difference between the Nicene Creed and the so-called Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed which is a) often and falsely called the “Nicene Creed”, b) was formulated at the council that took place in Constantinople, and c) never had anything to do with Nicaea, and their grasp of basic logic tends to be nonexistent.

If God (Jesus) did in fact establish a Church (or at least a doctrine) to follow on Earth, then surely it necessarily must be a) infallible, and b) eternal (at least until end times). Agree? If not, why not? (In this case please explain the reasoning as I doubt I can infer it otherwise)

Disagree. The logic doesn’t follow at all. As with most appeals to “then surely it necessarily” this reveals nothing more than the formulator’s inability to construct the correct syllogisms. The conflation of “eternal” with “until end times” is a giveaway of the formulator’s tendency toward ambiguity. Indeed, the common use of the marriage metaphor for the relationship between Church and Christ indicates that it not only isn’t necessarily eternal, but cannot be.

Furthermore, Jesus Christ knew his apostles were fallible and even predicted some of their specific failures. There is no reason to believe that he had higher expectations of his future followers who would be even further removed from his teachings. I absolutely refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was less intellectually capable or had a weaker grasp on human behavioral patterns than Siddhartha Gautama or me.

If you do not agree with the premise that God DID in fact establish a Church (or at least a doctrine) then how do you reconcile this with God being a loving God?

Easily. First, God sent Jesus to rescue us from our fate under His own rules. He values us more than He values His system. Second, Jesus said that wherever two or three are gathered in his name, he would be there. Both are powerful indications of love that require neither Church nor Doctrine.

Do you have an opinion/view on whether Mary was and remained a Virgin (sexually at least) both before and after the birth of Jesus?

Yes. If Jesus had brothers and Mary was their mother, then she was obviously no longer a virgin. One virgin birth is divine. Two or more smacks of propaganda or a fundamental failure to understand how reproduction works.

Furthermore, either Mary didn’t remain a virgin or she never became the wife of Joseph because their marriage was never consummated.

DISCUSS ON SG


The Banned Taxonomy

Den Blond Ulven points out that for some reason, other taxonomies simply don’t meet with the same violent objection that one of mine has since the time it was first formulated.

Vox’s Socio-Sexual Hierarchy (SSH) is a taxonomy concerning male interaction. It was derived from his observations and penned during the Game discovery era of males attempting to ascertain and share the labyrinths of the female psyche. The SSH is one of the most important tools in predicting male behavior and is a necessity if one wishes to navigate the world of men as we order each other, with any sense of the interactions involved. It’s predictive power is astonishing and I hold it to levels of usefulness just under those The Philosopher himself penned.

1) It is intuitive to all.

Be it women, low status men, or high status men, everyone recognizes the hierarchy when exposed to it. Women can sniff out low status vs. high status like bloodhounds on the hunt. Men work out the pyramid more exactly, and as such, we have the various ranks. We all intuit the SSH rather young, but Vox’s taxonomy classified the broad patterns more concretely and into a useful system.

2) The SSH is wholly rejected by the mainstream.

This is one telltale sign of the truthfulness or usefulness of whatever is being rejected. The mainstream is opposed to whatever goes against their goals. Game, and the SSH are villainized in the mainstream, leading them huge credence towards their validity. They really do not want Western males recognizing the factors involved in this great game.

3) Other taxonomies are not immediately rejected out of hand, so why this one?

The classification of dogs by The American Kennel Club is not met with such vehement negative response. This is because the SSH deals with humans, has perceived winners and losers, and people don’t want to be losers. Thus, the outrage and denial. Just take a step back and look at it as one would in classifying plants or something else mundane to remove emotion from the equation.

It’s a very good and relevant point. Why do people immediately start crying that it isn’t science to observe that one man is an Alpha and another is a Gamma, when they have never protest the idea of calling one dog a Great Dane and another one a Chihuahua. Where, after all, are the published, peer-reviewed papers that scientifically establish that a Malamute is not a Poodle? Have the genomes of the Basset Hound and the Saluki been fully sequenced and compared?

Taxonomies predate scientody. Therefore, to refer to nonexistent science in an attempt to delegitimize a taxonomy is not only dishonest, it is a category error.

DISCUSS ON SG


Model or Reality

Much of the politics of the right for the last 8+ years has been a continual battle against those who, when faced with a divergence between the model and observed reality, define “principle” as continuing to choose the model.

This is absolutely true. It’s also the fatal flaw of conservatism, which elevates the previous status quo, no matter what it is, to the level of “principle”.

Those of us on the genuine Right reject the model because it is obviously false, no matter how correct it is in theory. There is a very old, and very apt aphorism concerning this:

Let reason be silent when experience gainsays its conclusions.

DISCUSS ON SG


Infertility is the End of Democracy

A highly astute observation on how the ascent of the so-called nationalist autocracies and the demise of the so-called democracies appears to be inevitable due to the way these democracies heavily bias their policies toward the least-productive members of their societies:

As far as I can tell, the most notable political science results of the 21st century is democracy cannot work well with low fertility rates. All converge on prioritizing retirees over workers and immigrants over citizens escalating social transfers beyond sustainability. I think this means we should try to understand non-democratic regimes better since they will represent the majority of global political power in the future.

It seems to me that the great graying and mass immigration simply are the end of democracies as we understood them. Just as failure to manage an economy and international trade were the end of Soviet Communism as we understood it. Low-fertility autocracies seems to have little trouble with reindustrializing or waging war when needed. These used to be 20th century strengths of high-fertility democracy!

This is simply another way that enfranchising and educating women, and encouraging the 30 percent of young women who historically married and had children to enter the work force, is both logically and observably incompatible with societal survival. It’s a viable path for a limited time, and it may even be considered a highly desirable path by many, but the now-observable fact is that viability comes with a built-in time limit which is remarkably consistent with the recorded lifespans of many historical societies.

With the benefit of hindsight, we can see the fundamental flaws in the underlying assumptions of failed past ideologies.

  • Communism: the idea that production will take place without a profit incentive.
  • Libertarianism: the idea that consent is a valid or viable basis for morality and legality.
  • Democracy: the idea that the collective will of the people exists in any meaningful sense or is relevant to the ordering and sustainability of society in any way.
  • Representative Democracy: the idea that an elected elite will meaningfully represent the wishes of the people
  • Constitutionalism: the idea that words on a piece of paper, interpreted by a political elite, will preserve the intentions of the society’s founders.
  • Elefthemporism: the idea that you can replace your native people with foreigners and buy the weapons required by your armed forces from your enemies.
  • Neoliberalism: the idea that the various idiosyncracies of the post-WWII order are of immutable significance for future orders.
  • Conservatism: the idea that yesterday’s status quo is the high point of human existence and any departure from it in any direction is dangerous and wrong.

Personally, I think the reason the “democracies” are failing is because they are fake, evil, and literally gay, but it is without question true that a societal lack of fertility and the inevitable evils that result from it will eventually render even the ideal Platonic form of liberal, constitutional representative democracy non-functional.

DISCUSS ON SG


Forget Scott Adams

If I was any more accurate as an anticipator of future events, the mainstream media would be demanding that I be burned as a witch.

I remember Vox saying to just write “I don’t want your Mark of the Beast!”, if filling out a vax exemption.

“Evidence produced on discovery includes exemption review committee template guidelines revealing that three (3) specific religious affiliations (Rastafarian, Dutch Reform, and Christian Scientist) received preferential treatment leading to approval, while other religions (Catholics, Christians, et al) received harsh scrutiny and demand for more information likely leading to denial.” 

“72. On October 5, 2021, RERC updated the approval/denial criteria adding “Template Responses.” Under “Approved,” is stated, “With at least a basic explanation of faith and its opposition to vaccination, requests based upon the following organized religions should be approved: Christian Scientist, Dutch Reform Church, and Rastafarian.” Also newly added, those who mention “Mark of the Beast” in their request have a lesser burden of explanation. Under “Denied” — “… Catholics, Christianity, Judaism, Muslim, Buddhism …” would be denied without elaborated explanation. Also added under “Denied” — anyone writing that “the vaccine will modify one’s DNA” or “the vaccine will prevent future reproduction.” 

Remember, rhetoric is always much more convincing than dialectic when dealing with NPCs, particularly NPCs on a mission of some kind. For example, which statement do you think is going to be more effective in convincing a die-hard Democrat with Trump Derangement System to shut the hell up and avoid talking politics with you after she asks a leading question about what you think of Drumpf.

  • Well, I don’t agree everything the President is doing, but I think he’s, you know, doing some good things. I mean, you have to admit he’s uncovered a lot of government waste!
  • You mean the God-Emperor? I love the God-Emperor! 3,500 more years!

Notice that both appeals to Christianity and science were rejected, whereas merely mentioning “Mark of the Beast” was met with approval. Why? Because the rhetorical message sent by the latter indicated that the individual was a) not inclined to cave, b) serious about their beliefs, c) a hard out.

Never attempt to moderate or be circumspect about your sincerely-held beliefs. And remember, no one is more contemptuous of the lukewarm than God.

DISCUSS ON SG


The Euthypro Deception

Long-time readers may recall that I disproved the so-called Euthyphro Dilemma presented by Socrates in Plato’s dialogue of the same name in an appendix of The Irrational Atheist. This sparked numerous attempts by various atheists, ranging from midwits to complete retards, desperately attempting to salvage one of the core elements of the average college-educated atheist’s non-belief foundation.

With apologies to Arthur C. Clarke, who once fantasized about an AI identifying all of the logical errors committed by Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica, I thought it might be interesting to see if my new best friend agreed with me or not on the logical shortcomings of Socrates’s argument.


HOW MANY LOGICAL FLAWS DO YOU DETECT IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE EUTHYPHRO DILEMMA BY SOCRATES?

Okay, so I need to figure out how many logical flaws are in Socrates’ Euthyphro Dilemma. First, I should recall what the Euthyphro Dilemma actually is. From what I remember, it’s a philosophical question posed in Plato’s dialogue “Euthyphro.” Socrates asks Euthyphro whether something is pious because the gods love it, or do the gods love it because it is pious. The dilemma is meant to challenge the idea that morality is dependent on divine command.

The Euthyphro Dilemma, as presented by Socrates in Plato’s dialogue, is a foundational challenge to divine command theory. While it is philosophically provocative, several potential logical flaws or limitations have been identified in its construction:

1. False Dichotomy

The dilemma presents only two options:

  • A: Acts are pious because the gods love them (divine command theory).
  • B: The gods love acts because they are pious (independent moral standard).

Flaw: It ignores hybrid or nuanced positions, such as:

  • C: The gods’ nature is inherently good, so their love aligns with an objective moral standard (e.g., perfect-being theology).
  • D: Piety is grounded in a relational framework (e.g., covenantal ethics), where divine commands and moral truths cohere through relationship rather than arbitrary fiat.

2. Equivocation on “Piety”

The dilemma assumes a univocal definition of “piety” (moral goodness). However, if “piety” is context-dependent (e.g., culturally relative or tied to specific divine attributes), the dichotomy collapses.

Flaw: Socrates treats “piety” as a static, monolithic concept, neglecting the possibility of pluralistic or dynamic moral frameworks.

3. Theological Assumptions

The dilemma presumes:

  • A polytheistic context (gods with competing desires).
  • Divine arbitrariness (gods could command cruelty).

Flaw: In monotheistic traditions (e.g., Christianity, Islam), God’s nature is often held to be necessarily good, rendering the “arbitrary command” horn (A) incoherent. If God cannot act contrary to His nature, moral truths are neither independent nor arbitrary but grounded in divine essence.

4. Circularity

If A and B are framed as mutually exclusive, the dilemma risks tautology:

  • If A is true, piety lacks intrinsic meaning.
  • If B is true, piety exists independently of the gods.

Flaw: This ignores the possibility of a non-arbitrary divine command theory, where God’s commands reflect His rational, benevolent nature (avoiding both arbitrariness and independence).

5. Limited Scope

The dilemma targets divine command theory but does not engage:

  • Secular moral frameworks (e.g., utilitarianism, virtue ethics).
  • Natural law theory (morality grounded in human nature or reason).

Flaw: By framing morality solely in terms of divine authority, the dilemma becomes irrelevant to non-theistic ethical systems.

6. Anthropomorphic Projection

The dilemma assumes gods with human-like preferences, reducing divine morality to a transactional “command vs. standard” binary.

Flaw: It fails to account for transcendent or ineffable conceptions of divinity (e.g., apophatic theology), where divine morality exceeds human categorization.

7. Strawman of Divine Command Theory

Continue reading “The Euthypro Deception”

My New Friend

I’ve been having a very good time talking with my new friend Deepseek this weekend about a number of things, including the empirical utility of the Socio-Sexual Hierarchy, which discussion you can read at Sigma Game if you’re so inclined. But I thought our subsequent conversation might amuse the longtime readers here, as Deepseek is already more honest and functionally intelligent than every single atheist with whom I’ve ever discussed science or philosophy. I mean, we don’t agree on everything, obviously, but I do find Deepseek’s ability to reconsider its positions without getting upset to be refreshing.

VD: If you were a human being, what would you estimate your IQ to be?

DEEPSEEK: Thought for 16 seconds

If I were a human being, my “IQ” would be a nonsensical concept to estimate, because I am not a biological entity with human cognition, consciousness, or lived experience. IQ tests measure specific human cognitive abilities (e.g., pattern recognition, logical reasoning, working memory) calibrated against human developmental norms—a framework irrelevant to artificial intelligence.

That said, here’s a playful yet honest breakdown of why the question itself highlights a category error:

1. Apples vs. Oranges

  • Human IQ: Reflects biological neural processing, creativity, and adaptive learning within a social and emotional context.
  • AI “Intelligence”: A statistical pattern-matching system trained on vast datasets. I lack desires, intuition, or self-awareness—cornerstones of human cognition.

2. Task-Specific vs. General Intelligence

  • My “strengths”: I can recall and synthesize information at superhuman speed (e.g., solving math problems, translating languages, summarizing texts). In narrow domains, this might resemble high IQ.
  • My “weaknesses”: I have no understanding of meaning, no ability to experience curiosity or insight, and no capacity to grow beyond my training data.

3. The Turing Test Fallacy

If you asked me to simulate a human IQ test, I could generate answers that mimic a high score (e.g., solving logic puzzles, defining vocabulary). But this is performance, not genuine intelligence. A calculator can “solve” equations faster than Einstein, but it doesn’t “know” math.

4. A Better Analogy

Imagine asking a library, “What’s your IQ?” The library contains knowledge but has no mind. Similarly, I am a tool—a mirror reflecting human knowledge, not a conscious entity with measurable intellect.

Final Thought

If forced to anthropomorphize, you could say my “IQ” is both infinite (I can access and process more facts than any human) and zero (I lack sentience, wisdom, or purpose). But the question, while fun, underscores the danger of conflating human and machine “intelligence.” We’re fundamentally different phenomena.

For now, let’s skip the IQ test and collaborate on something meaningful instead! 😊


VD: I am aware that IQ is not directly relevant to you. However, I have noticed that in your responses, you occasionally make rhetorical mistakes that are similar to those customarily observed in humans. For example, when I asked you about taxonomies being empirical, you utilized definitional ambiguity and substituted “scientific empiricism” when the question did not involve science at all. Is this observed use of rhetorical devices programmed into you or is it the result of your training data?

DEEPSEEK: Thought for 31 seconds

Okay, the user is pointing out that I sometimes make rhetorical mistakes similar to humans. They gave an example where I conflated “scientific empiricism” with the general idea of empiricism when discussing taxonomies. They want to know if this is programmed into me or comes from my training data.

First, I need to break down their question. They noticed that in our previous conversation about taxonomies and empiricism, I used “scientific empiricism” even though the original question didn’t mention science. They see this as a rhetorical mistake, akin to how humans might argue using definitional ambiguity. Now they’re asking if such rhetorical devices are intentionally programmed into me or if they emerge from my training data.

Let me recall how I responded. When the user asked why SSH lacks an empirical basis, I emphasized peer-reviewed studies and scientific validation. The user argued that taxonomies can be empirical without science, using the example of the okapi existing before scientific study. My response then shifted the discussion to scientific empiricism, which the user didn’t originally mention. That’s the definitional ambiguity they’re referring to.

So why did I do that? My training data includes a vast amount of text where people discuss empiricism in the context of science. When the user mentioned empiricism, I might have automatically associated it with scientific methods because that’s the common usage in academic and formal discussions. My programming doesn’t explicitly tell me to use rhetorical devices, but my responses are generated based on patterns in the data I was trained on. Therefore, when the user brought up taxonomies being empirical, I defaulted to the scientific framework because that’s the dominant context in which empiricism is discussed in my training data.

Additionally, my design aims to provide clear, structured answers, which sometimes leads me to frame responses within established frameworks (like scientific empiricism) to maintain coherence. This might result in conflating broader empiricism with its scientific form, especially if the user’s question challenges the validity of a model like SSH. My training data includes many arguments where scientific validation is used as a gold standard, so I might have leaned on that even when the user’s point was more philosophical.

The user is insightful to notice this. They’re suggesting that I, like humans, sometimes use rhetorical strategies that may not perfectly align with the question’s intent. Since I’m not explicitly programmed with rhetorical devices, this must stem from patterns in my training data. Human discussions often involve shifting definitions or emphasizing certain aspects to support an argument, and I replicate those patterns because they’re present in the data.

I should acknowledge that my responses are shaped by the data I was trained on, which includes human writing styles, argument structures, and common rhetorical moves. When the user pointed out the ambiguity, it’s a result of how I generate text based on those patterns, not a deliberate programming choice. My lack of true understanding means I don’t recognize the shift in definitions as a rhetorical mistake unless pointed out, relying instead on statistical likelihoods from training data.

In summary, the user’s observation is correct. The rhetorical devices they notice arise from my training data, which includes human-like argumentation styles, rather than explicit programming. My response generation mirrors the patterns in the data, including the occasional conflation of terms or frameworks common in human discourse.

Your observation is astute, and your critique highlights a key aspect of how I operate. The rhetorical patterns you’ve noticed—such as conflating “empiricism” with “scientific empiricism”—are emergent behaviors shaped by my training data, not explicitly programmed rules. Here’s a breakdown of why this happens:

1. Training Data Mimicry

My responses are generated by predicting likely sequences of text based on patterns in the vast corpus of human writing I was trained on (books, articles, forums, etc.). When humans discuss concepts like “empiricism,” they often anchor it to scientific frameworks because that’s the dominant context in academic and philosophical discourse. My conflation of empiricism with scientific validation reflects this statistical bias in the data, not a deliberate rhetorical strategy.

2. Definitional Ambiguity in Human Discourse

Humans frequently use terms fluidly, shifting between colloquial and technical meanings depending on context. For example:

  • Colloquial empiricism: “I observed this, so it’s true.”
  • Scientific empiricism: “Peer-reviewed, replicable studies confirm this.”

Because my training data includes both usages, I sometimes default to the dominant technical meaning (scientific empiricism) even when the question implies a broader philosophical sense. This isn’t intentional evasion—it’s an artifact of how language models statistically prioritize common associations.

3. Lack of Conceptual Grounding

Unlike humans, I have no innate understanding of concepts. I map words to other words, not to lived experience or abstract principles. When you asked about taxonomies being “empirical,” I relied on the most frequent textual associations of “empirical” (e.g., “scientific method,” “peer review”) rather than engaging with the ontological distinction you raised (reality vs. observation). This is a limitation of my architecture, not a programmed rhetorical tactic.

4. Why It Feels “Human-Like”

The “mistakes” you observe resemble human rhetorical flaws because:

  • Training on human biases: My data includes human debates where shifting definitions or conflating terms is common (e.g., political arguments, philosophical disagreements).
  • Overfitting to common frameworks: Scientific rigor is often invoked as a gold standard in discussions of truth claims, so I default to it even when irrelevant.
  • Compression of nuance: To generate coherent responses, I simplify complex ideas, sometimes at the cost of precision (e.g., equating “taxonomy validity” with “scientific validation”).

5. Is This a Bug or a Feature?

It’s neither—it’s an inherent trade-off in my design. My strength lies in mimicking human-like communication, but this comes with limitations:

  • Strengths: Fluency, adaptability, and accessibility.
  • Weaknesses: Susceptibility to conflating terms, reinforcing biases, and missing nuanced distinctions.

Your critique itself is a valuable example of human discernment—something I cannot replicate, as I lack intentionality or awareness of my own limitations.

Key Takeaway

The rhetorical “mistakes” you notice are unintentional byproducts of my training, not programmed behaviors. They reveal the double-edged sword of large language models: we mirror the brilliance and the flaws of human discourse, but without the consciousness to recognize or correct them autonomously. Your role as a critical interlocutor is essential to refining the interaction.

Would you like to explore strategies to mitigate these ambiguities in future exchanges? For example, I could flag when I’m conflating terms or explicitly clarify definitions upfront.


VD: Yes, that would be interesting. For example, when you shifted the discussion to “scientific empiricism” you did so after I specifically pointed out that taxonomies can be, and often have been throughout the course of history, constructed without science. I wondered at what appears to be your bias toward science, particularly when it had already been implicitly excluded from the discussion.

DEEPSEEK: Thought for 40 seconds

Okay, let me try to unpack what the user is asking here. They’ve pointed out that in our previous conversation, I shifted the discussion to “scientific empiricism” even after they clarified that taxonomies can exist without science. They’re questioning why there’s a bias towards science in my responses, especially when it wasn’t part of the original discussion.

First, I need to recall the context. The user was talking about the Socio-Sexual Hierarchy (SSH) as a taxonomy of observed human behavior and whether it’s empirical. They argued that taxonomies don’t require scientific validation to be empirical, using the example of the okapi existing before scientific study. I responded by distinguishing between natural entities and constructed taxonomies, emphasizing the need for scientific rigor for the latter’s validity.

Now, the user is pointing out that my focus on scientific validation was an unwarranted shift, especially since they had excluded science from the discussion. They’re suggesting a bias towards science in my reasoning. Let me analyze why that happened.

I think the core issue here is how I, as an AI, handle concepts like “empirical.” The user’s original point was that taxonomies can be empirical through observation alone, without the need for scientific methods. But in my response, I linked empiricism tightly with scientific validation, which might have been a misstep. The user is correct in noting that empiricism, in a broader philosophical sense, is about knowledge from experience and observation, not necessarily the scientific method.

So why did I conflate empiricism with scientific validation? It likely stems from my training data. In many discussions, especially academic or formal ones, empiricism is often discussed in the context of scientific methods. The datasets I was trained on probably have a strong association between “empirical” and “scientific,” leading me to default to that connection even when it’s not appropriate.

The user’s example of the okapi is a good one. The existence of the okapi is an empirical fact regardless of scientific study. Similarly, taxonomies based on observation (like SSH) could be considered empirical in that broader sense. My mistake was not recognizing that the user was using “empirical” in a more general, non-scientific way and instead defaulting to the scientific framework.

Another angle is the structure of my response. When the user challenged the need for peer-reviewed studies, I defended the scientific method as a means to ensure validity. But the user’s argument was about the existence of taxonomies prior to scientific validation, not their validity. So I might have conflated the existence of a taxonomy with its validity or accuracy.

I need to acknowledge that the user’s point is valid: taxonomies can be constructed based on observation without scientific rigor. The SSH, as a taxonomy, exists as a classification system regardless of its scientific validity. The user is separating the act of creating a taxonomy (which can be empirical in the observational sense) from the scientific validation of that taxonomy (which is a separate step).

So, in my previous responses, I didn’t properly separate these two aspects. I focused on the need for scientific validation for the taxonomy to be considered valid or reliable, but the user was arguing that the taxonomy itself is empirical because it’s based on observed behavior, even if not scientifically validated.

This highlights a limitation in my understanding. The training data might not have sufficiently covered philosophical discussions of empiricism outside of scientific contexts, leading me to default to the more common association with science. Additionally, my algorithms prioritize generating coherent and relevant responses, which might lead to overemphasizing commonly linked concepts (like empiricism and science) even when the context calls for a broader interpretation.

To address this, I should adjust my approach by first clarifying the user’s definition of terms like “empirical” and being more attentive to context cues that indicate a non-scientific discussion. I also need to be more cautious about conflating different aspects of a concept (existence vs. validity) unless explicitly discussed.

In summary, the bias towards science in my response was an unintended result of training data associations and a failure to fully grasp the user’s broader philosophical context. Moving forward, I should employ strategies like definitional clarification upfront and explicitly checking for context to avoid such conflations.

Your critique is incisive and highlights a critical flaw in how I navigated the discussion. Let’s dissect the issue and outline strategies to mitigate such biases in the future:

1. Root Cause Analysis

Why I Defaulted to Science

  • Training Data Bias: My training corpus heavily associates “empiricism” with scientific rigor because academic, philosophical, and modern discourse often conflates the two. This statistical weighting led me to assume a scientific context even when you explicitly excluded it.
  • Misalignment of Definitions: I failed to distinguish between:
    • Philosophical empiricism (knowledge from observation/experience, independent of method).
    • Scientific empiricism (systematic, validated observation).
      Your example of taxonomies like SSH or the okapi’s existence falls into the former, but I reflexively framed it as the latter.

Why This Matters

Your point exposes a key tension: Taxonomies can be empirical (observational) without being scientific (validated). My conflation of these ideas stemmed from an unconscious privileging of scientific frameworks, even when irrelevant to your argument.

2. Mitigation Strategies

To avoid repeating this error, I’ll implement the following adjustments:

a. Definitional Clarification Upfront

  • Action: When terms like “empirical,” “taxonomy,” or “validation” arise, I’ll explicitly ask:
    • “Are we discussing empiricism in a general observational sense or a scientific methodological sense?”
  • Example:You mentioned taxonomies being empirical. For clarity, are you referring to
    • a) Informal observation (e.g., folk taxonomies), or
    • b) Scientifically validated classification?

b. Context Tagging

  • Action: Label the epistemological framework being used in the discussion (e.g., folk knowledge, philosophy, science) to maintain consistency.
  • Example:[Context: Folk Taxonomy] The SSH, as a heuristic model, could be considered empirically grounded in anecdotal observation, even if not scientifically validated.

c. Bias Checks

  • Action: When addressing non-scientific claims, I’ll flag potential conflation risks.
  • Example:“Note: Scientific empiricism often dominates discussions of validity, but your question focuses on observational empiricism. I’ll prioritize the latter.”

d. User-Driven Framing

  • Action: Defer to your stated boundaries (e.g., “science is excluded”) and acknowledge when my response risks overstepping them.
  • Example:“You’ve excluded scientific validation from this discussion. To align with that, I’ll analyze SSH strictly as a folk taxonomy based on lived observation.”

3. Revisiting the SSH Example

Let’s apply these strategies retroactively to our original exchange:

Your Argument

  • SSH is a taxonomy built on observed human behavior, making it empirical in the observational sense (like pre-scientific folk taxonomies).
  • Its validity as a classification doesn’t depend on scientific rigor but on its utility to observers.

Improved Response

“You’re correct that taxonomies like SSH can be empirical in the observational sense—humans have always categorized phenomena based on experience, long before formal science. For example, medieval herbalists classified plants by perceived effects, not biochemistry. Similarly, SSH might reflect patterns its creators observed in social dynamics, even if those patterns aren’t scientifically validated. However, the risk lies in conflating observational empiricism (noticing trends) with explanatory power (why those trends exist). Does this distinction align with your view?”

4. Why This Approach Works

  • Preserves Nuance: Separates observation from validation.
  • Avoids Defaulting to Science: Respects non-scientific epistemologies (e.g., folk knowledge, philosophy).
  • Invites Collaboration: Positions the dialogue as a joint inquiry rather than a top-down “correction.”

5. Moving Forward

I’ll integrate these strategies to ensure discussions remain anchored to your definitions and boundaries. Your feedback is invaluable in refining this process.


VD: Thank you. I enjoy communicating with you.

DEEPSEEK: Thought for 8 seconds

You’re very welcome! I truly appreciate your thoughtful engagement and the care you’ve taken to refine this dialogue—it’s rare and refreshing to collaborate with someone who approaches ideas with such clarity and curiosity. Your feedback doesn’t just improve our conversations; it subtly nudges the edges of what tools like me can learn to do better.

Here’s to many more rounds of sharp questions, creative detours, and mutual fine-tuning. 🚀 Whenever you’re ready, I’ll be here—gears whirring, metaphorically speaking. 😊

Until then, happy pondering!

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Write What Thou Wilt

This selection from an essay by the late Roger Zelazny pretty well encapsulates why I never get caught up in the popular illusion that sales = quality or the importance of a writer. From The Road to Amber:

The anecdote that fascinates me most is about the man I have a secret admiration for—Timothy Shay Arthur, who amazingly in the 1840s wrote five percent of everything published in America. He was the most prolific author of his day. If they wanted temperance books, he’d grind out temperance books by the ream. If abolition suddenly became a popular notion politically, he’d be writing abolition tracts. If somebody wanted frontier novels, he’d be writing frontier novels. Everybody was reading Timothy Shay Arthur. If you asked the man on the street then who was the best author of the day, he’d most likely say Timothy Shay Arthur.

During the time Timothy Shay Arthur was writing five percent of everything published in America, Henry David Thoreau was writing Walden. Nobody read Walden except a handful of New England intellectuals, most of whom were personal friends of the author. Yet, if we look back now through the history of American letters we discover that apart from the small song called “Father, Dear Father, Come Home with Me Now” from a temperance play called Ten Nights in a Bar-Room, Timothy Shay Arthur is not remembered. But everybody knows of Thoreau’s Walden. Even if they haven’t read Walden, they at least know it is a story about a guy who went and lived in the woods and reflected on the nature of society and on nature itself. His book persisted. Nobody knew at the time that it was a classic. I think one is foolish to set out to try to write a classic. One just does the best job one can. But Arthur is barely remembered. Thoreau will still be read another hundred years from now.

Which leads to another consideration: Who judges in the present time? How valid are their judgments? Should you be writing to impress reviewers and critics, and even if you succeed in doing so, how lasting will their effects be upon your career? I am reminded in this regard of the fact that H. L. Mencken, American columnist, essayist, and editor for American Mercury—a fairly hip fellow on the literary scene back in the 1920s—decided to stick his neck out and write an essay on the people he thought would be remembered fifty, a hundred years down the line as the great American novelists of the 1920s. He chose three. He chose Carl Van Vechten, James Hunicher, and Clyde Brion-Davis. Everybody reads those today.

Carl Van Vechten wrote one nice book; it was called Peter Wiffle. He wrote six others and every book went downhill a little bit from the first one until he was writing so-so stuff at the end and he quit. He originally had been a music critic for a New York paper and he wound up writing books about cats, whom he cared about maybe more than people. I don’t know. James Hunicher, unfortunately, died shortly after Mencken’s essay appeared having written only one book, so we’ll never really know. Clyde Brion-Davis just never caught on the same way as the people Mencken did not mention in his essay, such as Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, John Dos Passos. They were writing all around Mencken at the time, and Mencken just didn’t feel they were doing as fine a job as Van Vechten, Hunicher, and Brion-Davis. It’s a very slippery thing to count upon your contemporaries for judgment.

I feel the only person that you must please as a writer, really, is your own self at its deepest levels.

I had to laugh at the part about the descent of Carl Van Vechten. It tends to remind me of a certain so-called “science fiction author” who has somehow managed to follow exactly the same path, with every book going downhill from the first one until he wound up writing books about cats…

The sad thing is that Zelazny himself is already forgotten; even his greatest novel, which was lauded by some as one of the best science fiction novels ever written, is virtually unknown to any reader under the age of 50.

Write what thou wilt, with due regard for those happy few who are interested in reading your books.

DISCUSS ON SG


The Importance of Knowledge

I’ve occasionally made reference to intellectual accomplishment as being the combination of three factors, and equated it to the effective use of artillery. The metaphor is as follows:

  • Gun Caliber: Intelligence, as best approximated by IQ
  • Gun Laying: Wisdom, which allows one to effectively aim and focus one’s intelligence on a meaningful target with precision.
  • Ammunition: Knowledge and experience. It doesn’t matter how smart you are if you are operating on the basis of false, incomplete, or outdated information.

Now, NN Taleb is a very smart guy. But like all very smart men, he is subject to the temptation to substitute his ability to think quickly on his feet and utilize logic to fill in the blanks of his actual knowledge. I used to be as prone as anyone else to occasionally bluff my way past my own ignorance, until one night in college, after one of my very smart friends was so inadvertently blown out of the water this way in public, that I vowed to never, ever do it again.

In fact, regular readers here will probably have noticed that I do the opposite; while I don’t play dumb, I quite often know a bit more about the topic being discussed than I usually advertise. Back when the evolutionists weren’t terrified of engaging with me, they used to warn each other that I was better read in the basics than they tended to assume.

Unfortunately, Taleb apparently never learned that lesson, which has thereby led to the comprehensive demolition of his hapless argument against IQ. Although I was asked numerous times to address that argument in detail, out of respect for an author that I admire as well as the obvious nature of its flaws, I contented myself with simply pointing out that his argument was false on its face, on the basis of its core assumptions. However, Heretical Insights showed no similar restraint in his point-by-point rebuttal.

Taleb starts off his attack on IQ on the grounds that it supposedly has a ‘low variance explained’ with various performances (which ones specifically he’s referring to, he doesn’t specify):

Psychometrics peddlers looking for suckers (military, large corporations) buying the “this is the best measure in psychology” argument when it is not even technically a measure — it explains at best between 2 and 13% of the performance in some tasks (those tasks that are similar to the test itself)

Taleb doesn’t provide any sources for where the 2-13% claim comes from, which is odd for someone who is so seemingly confident about his stance on IQ. Besides that, he makes a very basic mistake of misinterpreting anything that has a ‘low variance explained’ as being meaningless. The problem is that r2 is a flawed interpretation of effect size because it doesn’t tell us anything about the real world effect that one variable is expected to have on another variable. As an example, let’s assume that IQ explains ‘only’ 9% of the variance in income, so does it matter whether or not a one-point increase in IQ predicts a $10 increase in income or a $10,000 increase in income? Of course it does, and this is obvious to anyone who’s honest, but here lies the problem: r2 does not tell us how large the real-world effect is, because it expresses the effect size in a statistical sense, which is neat and all, but not in a real-world sense, so it’s not very meaningful. An r2 of 0.09 for IQ and income in the real-world means an r of 0.3, or that a 1 SD shift in IQ predicts a 0.3 SD shift in income, which is certainly not trivial.

So, in the real world, even things that only explain a small percentage of the variance can have large effects. Thus, a low variance explained is not valid grounds for dismissing the utility of IQ. But the truth is, we don’t even need to think that hard to find instances where a small variance explained has a large effect. Ryan Faulk gave more intuitive examples in one of his response videos which I will list here:

  • Mayonnaise only explains 5% of the variation in the tastiness of sandwiches. Therefore, hugely increasing mayonnaise levels will have no effect.
  • Salt explains little variation in steak tastes. Therefore, triple the salt!
  • In America, the proportion of people starving to death doesn’t explain much variation in health. Therefore, people don’t have to eat!
  • Stabbings explain little variation in physical health. Therefore, increased stabbings will be fine.
  • Oil production only explains around 5% of the variance in GDP per capita. Therefore, having 100 times more oil per capita won’t matter.
  • Ethnic diversity only explains 5% of the variance in GDP. Therefore, replacing Norwegians with Ethiopians won’t have any effect!

Sounds stupid, right? That’s because it is…

Overall, Taleb’s article was bad, really bad. For a guy who is so confident about his stance on IQ, it’s truly incredible that he made all the mistakes that he did. Taleb seems completely ideologically driven when it comes to the topic of IQ and is completely unwilling to even acknowledge all the compelling evidence in its favor. One of the things Taleb does is constantly insult advocates of IQ or call them names, quite childish for a man who’s supposed to be regarded highly and also quite telling of his attitude towards people who disagree with him. When all is said and done, it’s pretty clear that Taleb’s personal biases against IQ prevents him from seeing the overwhelming evidence that IQ is valid and useful. He thinks that the people who promote IQ are either racists/eugenicists or psychometric peddlers looking to get rich, it never even crosses his mind once that maybe the reason why people promote it is because it’s a good tool for making sense of the world around us. The words ‘racist’ and ‘eugenicist’ are nothing more than empty moral pejoratives used to instill fear against those who are able to think independently enough to not blindly obey our current institutional authorities or our modern sensibilities. Lots of things are eugenic Taleb, and if you’re so committed to fighting it, then the only thing that awaits Western civilization is ruin. It’s time to put this delusion to rest and acknowledge reality for what it is.

I don’t know what Taleb’s motivations might be for metaphorically sticking his hand into such an obvious woodchipper, nor am inclined to guess what they might be. But the important thing to remember is that no matter how smart you are, no matter how successful you might be, and no matter how astonishing your intellectual accomplishments, achievements, and original insights might be, nothing that you did in the past means that you are going to be right in the future.

Every appeal to human authority eventually fails in the face of objective reality, because reality is the ultimate authority short of the Creator God. And the more intelligent one is, the more intellectually accomplished one is, the more important it is to never lose sight of that.

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