Mailvox: the Dark Lord knows doubt

JR writes: I wanted to thank you the other day for an article that you wrote that helped me in my personal life. The message was men want respect and support from their mates. I started complimenting my husband more on his hard work, I made a daily effort….and also of my son. I found it worked tremendously in how they treat me now…. Your article works for both sexes. I just naturally assumed that the men were getting it from each other, at the golf course, at work, etc. You showed me a deep secret of truth that has helped me.

Hmmmm. I may have to rethink my mysogynistic master plan to oppress women and make miserable, powerless sex-slaves of them all. They seem to like it too much.


Mailvox: dodging the answers

Papapete writes: Yours is the affirmative position. You have to prove your case. You have not done anything to credibly explain or describe the relationship.

Papapete is avoiding answering the points I raised previously. A broken clock is right twice a day, and incorrect 1438 times per day; since he can’t remember one, much less 2,872 of the anti-suffragists faulty predictions, it’s impossible to give any credence to his analogy. I never laid out a perfect chain of causality; as I stated before, there is no mathematical proof possible in matters as nebulous and complex as this.

Now, if women’s suffrage has had no effect on society, why would anyone object to it being eliminated? If it has had an effect, then what are those effects? Surely women have made some difference somewhere in 84 years! As for a specific description of the relationship, I thought it was obvious by implication, but apparently some people couldn’t follow it.

1. For whatever reason, women are inclined to favor security, (as represented by interventionist government), over freedom, (as represented by limited government.)

2. Women were given the right to vote in the USA in 1920.

3. Since 1920, women have reliably voted for politicians at all levels who are dedicated to increasing government intervention in society.

4. Government intervention in society has increased significantly since 1920.

5. Among the consequences of this increased government intervention is the forcing of women into the workplace and increased stress on the family due to steadily increasing inflation and taxes.

6. The resultant familial stress combined with the increased financial independence of women created an increased desire for divorce, the rate of which began to rise quickly ten years after women began entering the work force en masse. The combination also led to the development of modern feminist ideology, the direct result of which was widespread and legalized abortion and increased illegitimacy as more and more women substituted dependence on the government for dependence on an invididual man and her extended family for food, shelter and childcare.

7. The doubling of women entering the work force finally surpassed the two-thirds of 65+ men leaving the work force, (who were leaving as a result of the Social Security entitlement granted by the interventionist government), leading to the peaking of real wages in 1973. This has only increased the aforementioned stress, as it is now impossible for a single median wage earner to support a family.

Now, it is clear that women’s suffrage is not the only factor operative here, but given women’s reliable 9-12 percent bias towards increased government intervention and the average margin of victory in presidential, gubernatorial and senatorial elections, they can reasonably be considered a decisive factor.


Take the long view

D69 writes: What Reagan began was clearly a revolution. He was clearly on the road to re-establish the “founding principles”. I believe Eisenhower attempted this as well, but was in no way as successful. “Ike” was simply not the communicator that Reagan was. Our nation has been clearly downhill since Lincoln. There were some bright lights with “Teddy” and “Ike”, but Reagan may have been our last hope to restore the republic. I don’t think we will ever see anyone like him again. I hope I am wrong, but “everything is cycles” proves to be not the case. The second law of thermodynamics is more aptly applied here I’m afraid…

This is interesting to consider in light of the concept of socionomics. If Elliott is correct and society is broadly driven by waves of human emotion, the Reagan Revolution was a natural reaction to a down wave that brought the country to a cycular low. At such lows, it appears that the country moves in one of two directions – towards more “security” in the form of increased government as in the case of FDR, or towards more freedom in the form of decreased government as in the case of Reagan.

Now, the foremost Elliott wave theorist, Bob Prechter, is standing by 2000 as the beginning of a grand super-cycle wave down. He sees the current conflict as a minor prelude to what is inevitably coming next, which means that the country will be forced to face another opportunity to make its choice between freedom and security. Based on his technical system, Prechter is extremely negative in this regard, but even if he turns out to be correct about the grand super-cycle wave down, that does not necessarily require that people will embrace more of what got them into trouble in the first place. They probably will, but as long as there are those of us who will point to another, better way, the possibility of a third Reaganite revolution remains, the failures of the previous two notwithstanding.

I’m not saying that I think the odds are great, but that doesn’t trouble me much. Indeed, I take some reassurance from the helpless flailings of Republicans and Democrats alike, as the failures of their power-hungry ideology lead inevitably to enacting the same concept at the next level up. Hence the starry-eyed hope in the United Nations. The truth always comes out in time, the only difficulty is that it usually requires several generations to remember what was learned the last time around.

What we’re seeing with the destruction of the family, the destruction of the currency and societal loss of faith is nothing new. Students of Greece, Rome and China all recognize these things as symptoms of a society in the early stages of decline into Empire. Humanity has always survived such declines; it will survive this as well, and from the ashes of empire freedom and human liberty will rise again.



Mailvox: chopping the apple

Discordia writes: Have you ever heard of the phrase “post hoc ergo propter hoc”? It’s a fallacy that states that because A happens after B, then it stands to reason that B caused A. I haven’t yet seen any actual concrete evidence that women’s sufferage actually caused any of the things you claim it did. Do you have any, and if so, can I see it? That’s not all. You seem to be arguing that women’s sufferage has caused “divorce, illegitimacy, homosexuality and falling real wages”. How is this possible? You yourself point out that we don’t have a pure democracy, but a representative one. No one could selectively vote to relax divorce laws, or vote on a specific series of economic plans to cause a drop in wages.

Furthermore, I don’t even know how one would go about voting for illegitimacy or homosexuality. You have fallen prey to another fallacy – confirmation bias. In order to prove that sufferage is bad for America, you selected four things that have (at least in your opinion) worsened since. Again, can you actually prove that any of these things are connected to women’s voting rights?

Unlike the Human Pinata, Eris is taking a correct line of argument against my anti-suffragism. Can I prove the connection between the various social ills and women voting with mathematical certainty? No, because the social “sciences” do not permit such precision. But I believe I can make the case to a reasonable individual’s satisfaction.

First, a non-causal relationship is non-predictive. If one knows that it is raining in China, this does not help one predict the movement of gasoline prices in Wisconsin. Furthermore, as readers of science fiction know, long-term predictions are extraordinarily difficult. To accurately predict events 80 years in the future is hard enough, to do so based on wholly unrelated factors is massively improbable. One need only peruse predictions made in 1980 about what the world would look like in 2000 to see how difficult future projection is. As the Original Cyberpunk likes to say: “where’s my flying car?”

Despite this daunting improbability, the opponents of women’s suffrage were able, prior to 1920, to correctly predict the increase in divorce, illegitimacy and even homosexuality that we have seen realized 80 years later. As late as the mid-1980s, newspapers like the Star Tribune were mocking these old anti-suffragist predictions as being Neanderthalian lunacy disproved by subsequent events. (This was around the time of the introduction of the Susan B. Anthony dollar and I remember thinking what a bizarre concept it was, given the obvious increases in divorce and illegitimacy – although clearly we hadn’t seen anything yet.) Now, these accurate predictions do not prove the causal relationship, but they either indicate that a) the anti-suffragists were wildly and improbably lucky, or b) there is in fact a relationship of some sort, possibly causal.

Second, Eris appears to suggest that there is no link between voting and social changes This is shallow and silly, so I suspect mild disingenuousness here. No, one seldom votes for no-fault divorce, but one votes for the judges and state politicians who create the institution. The easiest way to demonstrate the probability of a historically causal link is to note who is defending such ills and attempting to perpetuate them. Unilateral divorce is initiated about 80 percent of the time by women and women are 40 percent more likely to live in poverty (and presumably receive welfare – no stats on that). Welfare reform, anti-abortion laws and divorce reform are all bitterly opposed by women’s groups and the political party that is primarily dependent on women; it would seem most strange to argue that these groups now defending existing laws did not support enacting them in the first place, and even stranger to suggest those now opposing such laws were originally in favor of them.

However, relevant law is not the only influence. The huge 250 percent jump in American divorce began in 1960, while the first no-fault law was not passed until 1969, halfway through that 20-year period. (The law was signed by Ronald Reagan, ironically enough). The salient factor was the massive entry of women into the workplace that began in 1950 – AFTER the war, before anyone starts up with that misguided line – and the direct connection between women voting and women working was made by both suffragists and anti-suffragists prior to 1920. I’ve already written on falling real wages, you can read that here if you like.

As I said before, none of this completely proves my point beyond any shadow of a doubt, but should suffice to demonstrate this is not a simple matter of post hoc propter hoc here. Still, the social changes brought about by the 50-year Congressional rule of the Democratic Party could never have happened without the women’s vote, for as the Party Chair of the Tennessee Democratic Party said: ““When women vote, Democrats win.” And the Center for American Women and Politics states that there is an average nine-point partisan gap in Congressional races, ranging to twelve percent in the previous Presidential election.

Left-liberals cannot have it both ways. Either it makes no difference who wins office – in which case the venom directed at socially conservative Republicans makes no sense – or the boost that women’s voting has given the socially progressive Democrats has made a significant impact on society over the last 84 years. “Progress” does not just happen on its own, the accident theory of history notwithstanding.

Finally, a comparison with Switzerland, where women received the right to vote 51 years later than in the USA, is telling. Only 30 percent of women now work outside the home, (59.8% in America), the divorce rate is less than half the American rate, (although it has risen five-fold since 1950), and abortion was only legalized in 2001. This comparison thus tends to support my contention that women’s suffrage is indeed a causal factor with relation to three of the four various social ills I mentioned. I’ll get to the fourth in my forthcoming response to Bartholomew.


Mailvox: Conservatives crack up too

BP writes: As usual you liberals try to make a Republican president sound “idiotic”. As you know ( because you are in “Mensa”) the quote you have taken out of context regarding religion was – CLEARLY – an attempt to say that the barbaric behavior of the Taliban was not part of the spirit of Islam. Meaning, most obviously to all but the most critical observer, that barbaric behavior has nothing to do with religion.

Right, that barbaric behavior has nothing to do with the religion of peace. Now, how about the barbaric behavior in the 34 other wars that are being waged in the Dar-al-Harb by the Taliban’s peaceful co-religionists. I’m sure those have nothing to do with religion too.

While I will agree it could have been stated better in THIS particular speech, you wait for one poorly worded sentence out of hundreds of speeches given each month – and use THAT quote to imply the president is an idiot. You go on to say, “all attempts at negotiation and reasonable accommodation are doomed to failure”. I say – you are EXACTLY correct. This is why this president has taken out the Taliban, restored some level of order to Afghanistan, taken out Saddam Hussein and his terror regime, began rebuilding and committing political suicide by asking for many more billions of dollars in an election year ( I guess this did not require any leadership on his part either?).

Political courage is spending taxpayer money? Are you sure you’re not a liberal? And what is it with people and math this week? Do you really think President Bush gives a minimum of seven speeches every day? Ten, if he takes weekends off.

In the same breath you liberals argue that we should not be there. Am I to assume you are saying that we should let these people continue to operate “status quo”? After we have been attacked AGAIN. Which is it folks? Pick a side, or at the very least pick a position!! As you say negotiating won’t work, apparently war is a bad idea too. Must be easy to sit there, wait for a bad quote and also not support ANY solution on the Islamic fundamentalists whatsoever, no matter what it is. You apparently support NOTHING.

If we get attacked again by Saudi-funded Saudi terrorists, what country will we invade next, Venezuela? They’re in OPEC too, after all. I have on several occasions suggested two very different alternatives, either of which will work better than the present course of action.

Great job….is what your (not) doing cowardice??

Perhaps, there’s a lot of things I’m not doing. Among them, writing to a notoriously illiberal columnist under the wildly mistaken impression that he’s a liberal. Are you feeling a little uncomfortable, conservatives? You should. This sort of thing is precisely why some left-liberals have rightly responded to my “Argue like a liberal” column by saying, hey, the right wing does it too.

There are no sacred cows. Passion is no substitute for logic.


Mailvox: The pinata bursts

JW bids us adieu: Let’s recap, shall we? 1) You refuse to seriously address any of the points I raised, particularly that of “original intent”, a point which you refuse to either justify or concede,but prefer to accuse me of “randomly blowing hot air”. 2) You confuse my letter with someone else’s, and then make sarcastic comments about MY reading comprehension skills. 3) You give me the nickname “Ace”.

Therefore I see little point in further correspondence discussing your ill-informed, ill-conceived opinions about women’s suffrage. You, sir, are nothing but a pompous big mouth— and you ain’t foolin’ nobody with that MENSA shit, neither!

For the third and last time, my dear Ace, I never made any argument based on “original intent” nor so much as even mentioned those words. Nor did I confuse your letter with someone else’s, I was simply trying to explain to you how you’d originally misconstrued my response to someone else’s comment as an original intent argument.

C’est la vie. Run along now.


Mailvox: the human pinata

JW writes again: I never mentioned a word about “heredity monarchy in Saudi Arabia”, Mr. Day. What in heaven’s name are you talking about?

My mention of the Founding Fathers and their lack of support for women’s suffrage was in response to a comment by Dr BDH, who said, predictably: “At last Vox Day has explained why everything is so great in Saudi Arabia.” JW seems to be confused as to who wrote what when, and why.

The case against women’s suffrage is by no means limited to original intent. Since you’ve now abandoned your previous “original intent” argument, may I take it then that you have tacitly conceded that argument as being totally without merit?

No, because I never made any original intent argument. As you admit in your first paragraph, you clearly have no idea what I’m talking about. I’m not surprised. Nice try for a quick win on a technicality, though.

You are the one randomly blowing hot air— first putting forward “original intent” as a justification for opposing female suffrage, and then quickly abandoning that argument as soon as its inherent absurdity is pointed out.

Sigh…he’s a slow one, this guy. Even for a libewal.

Anyway, to answer your question, Mr. Day, the women of my family are intensely involved in politics at the federal, state and local levels of government. They have run for office, held office, and supported other women who did so. They have worked on numerous issues and supported various political parties. I would personally be VERY upset if they could not vote or run for office, and I also think that their lack of political participation would be a loss to thenation as a whole.

Well, at least he’s honest. Women’s suffrage has benefited society because JW would be VERY personally upset if it didn’t exist today. A solid 8.5 on the libewal argumentation scale, ladies and gentlemen! The moderate use of all-caps shows a nice flair for the dramatic.

Secondly, the women of my family, like those of the entire nation, pay/have paid literally trillions of dollars in taxes toward the common good. I fail to see why you’d propose taxation without representation for them— and this is true regardless of the particular type of taxation, whether it be income tax (which you probably oppose as a Libertarian) or sales tax or tariffs on imported goods or whatever type of tax the human mind can devise.

He’s a real math whiz, this JW. Who wants to let him know that the annual national economy is all of $10.5 trillion. Since their taxes are in the literal trillions, they must be in the highest bracket and must have had a collective minimum income of at least $4 trillion over the past 40 years since women entered the work force en masse. So, the women of JW’s family are collectively pulling in at least $400 billion per year – say, are any of them single?

(Now, this assumes that taxes go towards the common good, not paying interest on the national debt as the Grace Commission found is actually the case.)

The fact that you are obviously irritated by the fact that women do not reliably support your favourite political or religious beliefs is, too be blunt, tough shit for you. Other people’s rights are not based upon your personal satisfaction.

I’m not irritated, I’m just observing that women’s suffrage has, as far as I can see, made American women more miserable than ever and helped tear apart our society. But perhaps I’m wrong, and we can have more divorce, more abortion, more obese single women on welfare and then society will finally reach that glorious pinnacle of self-satisfied ecstasy towards which universal suffrage is destined to bring it.

I think I’m feeling a little KG today. Anyone else feeling it? Get that weak….


The democracy challenge

Franger writes: Vox, I challenge you on what I feel is a flaw in this whole thing about denying women the right to vote. Why stop at women? By your argument – women are more likely to support security over liberty in their voting decisions. This is based on polling data. So why not african americans? They consistently vote for democrats or other leftist groups or parties overwhelmingly. Why not white atheist males? Couldn’t it be said that they tend to form a worldview different than that from white christian males? And what makes you worthy of the vote Vox?

I never said anything about stopping at women. Most people should not be permitted to vote in a constitutional republic. Women are simply the largest group that reliably opposes, collectively speaking, individual human liberty and freedom. Let me turn it around for a moment and ask this question: why have any restrictions on democracy at all? Why were such restrictions instituted in the first place?

The reason is that most people are incapable of looking beyond either tomorrow or their own personal interests. We do not permit children to vote because they would make foolish decisions that are not in their best interest. Women, like many other groups taken in the collective, repeatedly demonstrate that they are not interested in accepting responsibility for themselves. This is why they reliably support ideologies designed to concentrate all decision-making power in a very small oligarchy.

One way or another, an elite will be wielding power in every society. The choice is simple. A broad and decentralized elite of independent meritocracy – in historical terms, the rich white men who founded this country – or a very small and vicious elite that has clawed its way to central authority.

So, I challenge “democrats” such as Franger to put their money where their mouths are. Either support a true democracy and abjure this bizarre antidemocratic system designed expressly to thwart the genuine will of the people expressed through the ballot box, or admit that restrictions on voting are necessary and we are simply quibbling about precisely where to draw the line.

I do favor a decentralized constitutional republic where only those who demonstrate a) an understanding of constitutional principles, b) an ability to logically, c) an ability to think beyond their own interests, d) an ability to accept consequences, e) a genuine commitment to individual human liberty and freedom as expressly delineated in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights are permitted a voice in government.

But if that is not possible, and at this time I admit that it is not, I would fully support a genuine democracy, wherein the Supreme Court and Congress are disbanded, replaced by national referendums voted on weekly by the entire people. The technology is there. The perfect expression of the will of the people is possible. I’m all for it, seriously, as the history of state referendums proves that the people are more to be trusted than the ruling oligarchy.

So, tell me, outraged supporters of women’s suffrage, do you really support the right of women to vote? Or is it necessary to limit it and keep it under the control of those who know what’s best for them?


Mailvox: fun with reading comprehension

JW writes in: You are wrong in so many ways! But let me just limit this posting to your use of the so-called “original intent” of the Founding Fathers as an argument against women’s suffrage. The genius of the Fathers was not to bequeath us a granite monument with The Correct Answer for all time! Their genius was to leave us a living, breathing document that would live, grow and change according to the demands of democracy and conscience.

I will begin by admitting straight away that the Framers had no “original intent” to allow women to vote. In turn, YOU must admit that the Framers had no “original intent”to have the seat of government in Washington, DC. There was no “original intent” to have the President live in a building called the White House. There was no “original intent” to have an FBI. There was no “original intent” to have a CIA. There was no “original intent” to have NASA. There was no “original intent” to have the US AirForce. There was no “original intent” to have the US Marines. There was no “original intent”to have the Federal Reserve Bank. There was no “original intent” to have a Smithsonian. There was no “original intent” to free the slaves. There was no “original intent” for the Lousiana Purchase. There was no “original intent” for Texas statehood. There was no “original intent”for Alaskan statehood. There was no “original intent” for Hawaiian statehood. There was no “original intent” to have Thanksgiving. There was no “original intent” to have a national anthem. There was no “original intent” to have a Pledge of Allegiance.

I could go on and on, but these few examples alone reduce your tiresome argument to absurdity. You, and a few of your wacko friends may personally be opposed to female suffrage, but to attribute these warped sentiments to the Founders is completely bogus.

The wonders of the liberal mind never cease to entertain! The most amusing thing is that he doesn’t seem to realize that I never once mentioned anything about “original intent” as an argument against women’s suffrage. I only mentioned the Founding Fathers to illustrate why it is absurd to equate a lack of support for female voting with support for a hereditary monarchy as in Saudi Arabia.

My favorite part is when he concludes by stating that the Founders did not have the sentiments that he began by admitting they did, in fact, have. This is a lovely exhibit of how to argue like a liberal:

1. Fail to understand the point.

2. Latch onto a phrase the other person mentioned and make naked assertions derived from that.

3. Claim that this completely destroys the other person’s argument, even if it has literally nothing to do with said argument.

4. Assert that you have plenty of other equally devastating responses, but you won’t bother with them right now.

5. Conclude by contradicting yourself.

6. Walk away thinking you won.

Che bellissimo! Truly, a work of art.